| Just to know your opinion... |
| VBBR | Some of you may already now how volatile I am with game projects... (read this, Eric? [:D])
Well, the fact is, now I've come up with a very solid idea and am starting the project. One thing I need is some directions. The other is your opinion on the subject of the game.
It will be basically a game where you are a detective and is hired to solve certain mysteries. The mysteries will be created separately so talking about themselves here doesn't apply (who knows, maybe at another topic at a later date). But they could be something like the classical murder case or something like investigating some rival or your own wife... [:p]
Now for the directions. Where should I start? Any of you know about some tutorial about game design and development that applies to basic games? Not something that assumes I have a tem of 20 or so people. There is me and hardly 2 more people that maybe can do something besides giving small ideas. |
| Eric Coleman | A game like that might be difficult for just one person. I don't know of any tutorials that apply to basic games. The game you're describing isn't basic at all. It will realistically take you quite a few years to finish it. [:)] |
| ballistik | If I were you, I'd maybe start by designing a modular-engine that could load and let the user play through a short mystery-puzzle-quest (whatever ya wanna call it!). After that (and possibly even during), maybe create the actual quest-editor. This would let you create some simple test missions to make sure your engine works. Then, proceed to enhance your engine with some AI, difficulty settings, etc. etc.
I guess it would work almost episodically. After you get it to a point where it is actually fun to play, you could allow people to download the engine and a few "episodes" to play. And you could constantly enhance the engine and make new episodes for people to play. [:)]
Just an idea...
P.S. - I never once said this would be easy. [;)]
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| EACam | definately hard...2D? even harder...3D? forget it...text based? possibly. screen based (like Myst)? probably best choice.
there's a tutorial about screen based games somewhere...but i can't rembember where...it was pretty good tho. |
| masterbooda | If your looking for ideas... If I was to make a game similar to that... I would make it a classic point and click type...
Interaction with other characters would be essential... you can set different questions to ask them, and if the player answers wrong will basically get knowhere...
Your best bet is to play some of the older dos games... this will give you a good Idea on where to start... but if you artistic skills aren't that great(like mine) then perhaps, make it mostly text based...
DaBooda out... |
| VBBR | I'm not worried about time, I have all the time of the world to do that game (ok, realistically, like a lot of years [:)])...
I don't think that 3D is a lot harder than 2D it's just a dimension more... [:P]
I think i'll use ballistik's suggestions they look good to me... of course you can continue writing.
Just to add: I could release just the game engine and the quest editor so everyone creates some fun quests [:)]
Another add: I will start trying to create a square ugly room where you can move an ugly box around... this should give me some basis.
EDIT: This is already done and the camera movement is pretty great at the time [:)] |
| VBBR | Now for EACam... I've been thinking... what's really the big drawback in making it 3D? I have found myself very better (actually less bad) with 3D art over 2D so that won't be a problem. Also I have a graphics engine capable of loading and animating MS3D, MD2 and 3DS files (the latter not supporting animation).
So...? |
| EACam | Well...the physics in 3D are harder. The AI is harder. The collision is harder. Just about everything is harder. + VB isn't quite fast enough for a full-fledged 3D game...but if your models weren't too detailed, you could probly get by. What's this engine you speak of? NemoX? |
| timbo152k | Realistically, VB is slow in some ways, however, to make the claim that it isn't fast enough for a full-fledged 3D game is not giving the language enough credit.... Besides, you can always get around any bottlenecks by writing the cpu-intensive functions in a C++ DLL or even inline ASM if you can find or write the code for it.
I think this game would be best suited as an isometric point and click type game, a similar engine to say Diablo 1 - except modern times, or maybe set in the 1950s - have that old detective show appeal to it.. old cars, rainy streets, allyways, bad guys... sounds great I'd say...
Plus, you can always render the art from 3D models! And if you need to make isometric tiles, there's a program on this site - I think in the tutorials section - that will handle that! |
| VBBR | EACam: I think I will make the game in a "rooms" style, so minimizing the collision/CPU overhead. Also there won't be really "AI". Just at some moments that the game will be more "action".
The engine I use is Revolution3D ([url]www.revolution3d.net[/url]), I have tried NemoX but Rev3D is much better. Check it out.
timbo152k: Yep, if I get by some CPU-intensive part, I will create an external C/C++ DLL to do the hard work for VB. Also the view will be kind of isometric (kinf of, I mean the point of view will be above and diagonal) but with dynamic camera movement... (soon I will post a very early alpha of the camera engine here).
About the time in which the game is on, it will depend most on the quests created. Also I plan to make the quest engine heavilly scriptable so there won't be needed too much tweak o the original code just to create an specific feature. But if some specific code is good and can be reused I could also implement it on the main engine.
I also know this program you're taling about - it's very good indeed. |
| EACam | Ok ok ok ok...i think you've got a fair shot at at least getting somewhere with this game...
That engine...it looks nice. Wait a second here...........am I correct in gathering that I can use this engine to do the graphics in DX9 but use the engine in VB6 (doesn't support DX9 directly)????? If so...SWEETNESS! |
| VBBR | Yeah! That's one of the biggest "greats" of Rev3D...! See, it's really great! And it not even in the 1.0 version...
Also in the next version (092) there will be support for Vertex and Pixel Shaders! Really sweet! |
| ballistik | quote:
Ok ok ok ok...i think you've got a fair shot at at least getting somewhere with this game...
That engine...it looks nice. Wait a second here...........am I correct in gathering that I can use this engine to do the graphics in DX9 but use the engine in VB6 (doesn't support DX9 directly)????? If so...SWEETNESS!
Yep you can, because the engine is written in C++. It's actually quite fast, not as fast as a commercial engine per se, but as far as engines written for use in VB, it's nice! I'm actually using it for my current project too. |
| EACam | 3D...here i come! |
| ballistik | [:D] |
| VBBR | Here's an early screen shot of what I've got so far... The model and textures were borrowed from one of the tutorials from the Rev3D engine...
You can move the guy around and the camera follows you quite softly. If the guy is still there's an animation like it's breathing and it changes to a "walking" animation when you are walking (quite logical, hehe [:D])
[img]http://www.vbgamer.com/msgboard/uploaded/VBBR/2004513121438_shot1.JPG[/img] |
| Dan | I see the makings of a good looking 3D game.
I like your idea of a detective puzzler - Have you played discworld noir - fairly old game and very bizzare puzzles but has some very good ideas - like the interactive notepad of evidence gathered which you can use when questioning others. and the way you can choose which location to visit from the city map - although areas only get opened up as you progress your cases. |
| VBBR | Interesting. I have never played it, but the ideas are good and open up a book of possibilities in my head.
Thanks for the comments! |
| Dan | I hope I'm not labouring the point, I've attached a few shots of the discworld game to give you a better flavour to it's style. Like I said - a good game, very odd puzzles... :)
You can read through the games story line here -> http://www.weirdness-central.co.uk/downloads/discworld-noir-walkthrough.doc.
[img]http://www.cdaccess.com/gifs/screen/discnoir2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.adventurecollective.com/screenshots/dwn2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.co.uk.lspace.org/games/discworld/noir/noirpics/noir02.jpg[/img]
[img]http://gamesurf.tiscali.it/recensione/disc1939122908100/immagini_grandi/5.jpg[/img]
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| VBBR | Hum... the scenery in this game is pre-renderized right? I know it can be a lot more detailed this way but I pretent to create mine fully 3D so you can watch all the details closely, literally, like a view from the character's eyes when it applies.
Now that I think about it, comes to me the idea of having more detailed objects when the view is on close... But I guess this should be in the "desired" list as it's not strictly necessary, I mean, this should be worked later. |
| VBBR | OK, now I need to know what to do next. Let me explain how do I usually develop applications...
- I create a "test" or "prototype" program with unoptimized, dirty, and modified everytime code to develop the features for the program/game like char movement, camera movement, collision checking, etc.
- Then I create a project from scratch and re-create each feature individually whilst cleaning up the code in the proccess.
So currently I'm in the "test" phase for project Lupa. I already have developed...
- Simple Character movement and animation
- Camera movement (4 types as of now)
- Simple Box-Box collision checking because ray collisions gave me really strange results [:D]
What should I do now? Jump into the "real program" part? Develop a new feature? If so what do you think I should add? |
| Dan | I think it would be wise to come up with a design document, an intended goal. You've already discussed the game type in this thread and the fact you are using a rather niffty engine for throwing your graphix around the screen.
You'll need to expand on this. For starters, the aviator is a detective, Will he have stats that effect the gameplay? Can his appearance or name be changed or choosen? How does the game dish out crimes/mysteries? How are theses stored by the game, more importantly how can they be edited? How do you move the character around (keys or mouse)? How is the gameworld created (Editor)? Will you require NPC AI? How about pathfinding for you and the other world inhabitants? What workflow will you use to create / load game assets? How can the player interact with the world?
You can expand on your first draft or evenchange it completly during the prelimary coding stage - It's just a good idea to get and think about the complete picture and how all the seperate system within the game will work and interact with each other - it should also give you some insight as to which area you should start coding first.
I'm sure you may have already spotted these game dev articles:
http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/fac/peabody/game-book/Chapter5.html
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article273.asp |
| VBBR | Thanks. I will take a look at these two. |