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sdw
Warrior
USA
160 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 11:51:55 AM
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Actually, isn't .Net more compatible than VB6?
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VBBR
Moderator
Brazil
617 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 12:07:30 PM
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| What? Where? Considering .NET doesn't even run in Win95... What's your argument? |
Whatever. Who knows... |
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cbx
Swordmaster
Canada
296 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 6:03:38 PM
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I have always tried not to fuel the fires of petty discontent towards microsoft and there software, ... but alas I am about to bend the rules....
Windows95? Nobody uses windows 95 any more. The majority of users are using at least windows 98 second edition or later. Complaining about a 20 mb download? Tell me what is not a 20Mb or more download nowadays. The DX redist is 36Mb, most game patches are more then 20Mb, etc etc etc, and to top it off, and to hopefully put an end to the M$ slandering, is that the .NET framework is availible through windows update. Not to mention all of the developers out there that are moving there code over to .NET, which means you will have to have .NET installed anyway if you want to run those apps!
I challenge anybody to prove that there is a better alternative to microsoft software! No software, or OS is more easier to use, feature rich and developer friendly etc, then the software microsoft produces. No, I'm not a M$ hater, but I am a M$ crack whore totally addicted to my crack pushing pimping mac daddy!  |
Created by: X
http://www.createdbyx.com/ |
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sdw
Warrior
USA
160 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 6:17:27 PM
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quote:
No software, or OS is more easier to use, feature rich and developer friendly etc, then the software microsoft produces.
Which OS's have you tried out other than windows?
quote:
I challenge anybody to prove that there is a better alternative to microsoft software!
Again, have you ever tried other OS's? |
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VBBR
Moderator
Brazil
617 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 6:21:45 PM
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Er... do I remember anyone saying that the Unix platform is the programmer's heaven?
Like... 1000 times? |
Whatever. Who knows... |
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cbx
Swordmaster
Canada
296 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 8:47:50 PM
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How many OS's have I tried,... well lets see All MS OSes since msdos,PCDOS, FreeDOS, about 5 different flavors of linux over the years, The old mac OS's as well as mac OS 10, ... hmmm well I'll change my statment about the OS, the new MAC OS and windows XP I'll grade as even, only because again windows has far more software apps availible for it.
Microsoft should not be scared of Linux in the least. That OS will require far more advancements in terms of ease of use, and pickup and play simplicity. Face it at it's core Linux is a command line OS no different then DOS, supported and hailed as the MS killer by programmers, computer enthusiests, and geeks alike. NOT, I repeat NOT, by grandma and grandpa simpson, and cirtianly not by the millions of people who know next to nothing about computers (or still do not even own one). And that is the problem! It's marketed and promoted by people who are in the know. (IE: have some above average experience with computers)
The last time I made a serious effort towards adopting a new OS was about 2 years ago just before I was really starting to get deep into .NET. That was the last time, and after which, I decided to stop bothering to try other platforms, simply because of having tried to use these other platforms I gained a strong apreciation for the windows OS and the quality of the software that MS truly produces. Try as you may to dis microsoft as "M$" but I don't see YOU managing and supporting the WORLDS PC's. PS: That aint an easy job!!!
I'm sick of listening to all these crying little nobodys complaining that MS is too hard to compete with.... huf huf,... blood pressure rising,... huf huf... tension increasing, starting to cold sweat,... Oh god nooooo! I've been tricked into participating in a rant weather MS is good or bad,... Baaahhhh! Dam you! This is my last post on this thread! You aint gonna get me ranting, no sir! Not going to happen! I'm just going to smile and leave you all to your self distructive ways....
Finnaly, Kung Fu Kenobi I say stick with vb.net or heck even c#.net, your life will be much more easier in the long run.
"We are the M$ supporters. Prepare to be assimilated. We will add your technological distinctives to our own. You will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." - Created by: X ( Hell ya! )
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Created by: X
http://www.createdbyx.com/ |
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Eric Coleman
Gladiator
USA
811 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 11:02:35 PM
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I think Microsoft makes great products, so I'm not a MS basher. It's difficult to say you hate microsoft when you run a website based off one of their major products. 
However, I do think .NET is not what MS said it was going to be. It is a versioning and security nightmare. For the same reason that IE and ActiveX are so dangerous, they are heavily integrated into the operating system, makes .NET equally dangerous.
There are serious versioning conflicts with the .NET framework. There are 3 major versions, each with their own service packs. A service pack for the 1.0 version will not fix or patch the 1.1 or 2.0 versions, and as far as I've seen, vice versa. A program compiled with the 1.0 Framework may or may not work properly on a computer with 1.1 or 2.0 installed. An end user needs all 3 versions intalled seperately. It's like service packs for Windows NT, you have to install them in order despite what MS says about a SP containing all the fixes of a previous SP. Ask anyone that's ever had to administer an NT box.
Grandma and Grandpa Simpson do not install computer updates unless their geek grandchild fixes their computer for them, so they probably don't have the .NET framework or even automatic patching. And for the record, .NET is not installed through automatic updates. You have to go to the windows website in IE and manually select the option to install .NET. Also, you can not install .NET on a computer unless the computer has certain other service packs or patches installed. This may not seem like a problem to you, but to others it is. Here's an old rant on the problem, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/PleaseLinker.html
.NET is a great idea, but so is world peace. |
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cbx
Swordmaster
Canada
296 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2004 : 11:19:18 PM
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| Nice article link eric, but I think it may be missing the point, in the sense that it's not actually our responsibility to ensure the end user has the .NET framework installed. It's microsofts. It's there framework, it's there OS, and they are the ones that need to ensure that it gets installed on peoples systems out there. Lets not forget that we don't need the .NET framework to create apps for end users. And if they want us to use .NET they will have to start making a more proactive aproace to getting .NET onto end users machines. But so far they have done a poor job of this. |
Created by: X
http://www.createdbyx.com/ |
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Almar
Moderator
Netherlands
192 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 02:48:13 AM
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^ With Eric.
I think the future is a nice time to learn some languages that can be used icmw. Linux. A nice example is FireFox, which is gaining more and more support right now, even under the 'common' people.
btw, nice article Eric. IT reminded me of this post as well:
http://www.persistentrealities.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=187
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VBBR
Moderator
Brazil
617 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 04:57:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cbx
Face it at it's core Linux is a command line OS no different then DOS
So what? Computers are ruled by 0's and 1's. Just because you don't have a pretty interface doesn't mean it's less powerful. What *** Microsoft Corporation *** (ahem) did with windows was just melting the core with the user interface (try using windows without explorer.exe).
Remember another thing, essentially the Windows NT platform is also a command-line OS. Just remember the ugly installation process. There's just a good-looking UI on top of it. (as I said, that's how computers work, you make a bunch of operations with 1's and 0's and look for a way to show the end result to the user)
quote:
Originally posted by cbx
It's microsofts. It's there framework, it's there OS (...) And if they want us to use .NET they will have to start making a more proactive aproace to getting .NET onto end users machines.
It certainly would sound a lot better if you learnt how to spell "their" and "approach". |
Whatever. Who knows... |
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Eric Coleman
Gladiator
USA
811 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 12:21:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cbx
in the sense that it's not actually our responsibility to ensure the end user has the .NET framework installed. It's microsofts. It's there framework, it's there OS, and they are the ones that need to ensure that it gets installed on peoples systems out there.
I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's Microsoft's responsibility to make sure the end user has .NET installed. It's just like DirectX, it's the vendor's responsibility. DirectX and .NET are 3rd party libraries that you as a developer chose to use, therefore since the developer made the decision to use them the task of making sure the libraries exists falls solely on the developer.
Wouldn't you be pissed off if when you installed the game Myst it simply didn't work because you didn't have Quicktime installed? Luckily they provided it on the CD so you can install it if you don't have it already. I'm sure I would have been pissed off if they told me I had to call the Apple BBS to download yet another program to install.
And wasn't it you that complained that Microsoft just screwed up all your previous work by releasing a new version of DirectX that failed to be backwards compatible?  Your solution of searching for older hacked versions of a directx sdk on some website I've never heard of (and don't trust) to install some extremly specific version is not optimal, especially for Grandma and Grandpa Simpson.
Also, you do need the framework to develop .NET applications, just like you need a C compiler to create C programs and VB to create a VB program.
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sdw
Warrior
USA
160 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 1:21:56 PM
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quote:
That OS will require far more advancements in terms of ease of use, and pickup and play simplicity. Face it at it's core Linux is a command line OS no different then DOS, supported and hailed as the MS killer by programmers, computer enthusiests, and geeks alike.
That doesn't make much sense to me because it's really your choice whether to use the command line or GUI, just like windows. Sometimes it's just much faster to do something in the command line rather than having to click around.
quote:
NOT, I repeat NOT, by grandma and grandpa simpson, and cirtianly not by the millions of people who know next to nothing about computers (or still do not even own one).
I like to think that it's fairly simple to check mail and surf the web on any OS. Also, grandma and grandpa don't want to spend a lot of money and Linux is 0 times as expensive as windows, and so is all the other software which comes with your flavor of linux :D
As for the quality of software, the only thing I can think of where windows software beats linux software is dependencies. Sometimes they're a pain to hunt down. Aside from that, most linux software is open source so that bugs and security holes are fixed quickly. In my opinion linux generally has more features than windows.
Are you sure that you really gave linux a chance? |
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Eric Coleman
Gladiator
USA
811 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 2:07:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sdw
Linux is 0 times as expensive as windows
I installed Mandrake, and then tried to install some development software that needed updated components, but Mandrake charges money for the updates.
Windows: Buy the OS get free updates.
Linux: Get free OS but buy the updates. |
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sdw
Warrior
USA
160 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2004 : 2:35:26 PM
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| I believe you're referring to the 4th CD. Mandrake gives you linux free of charge. They only charge for the 4th CD (which is optional) which contains extra software and libraries. This is how you can help support Mandrake. You can get all the software off that CD from places like rpmfind.net. |
Edited by - sdw on Nov 27 2004 2:36:20 PM |
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DevlinSE
Squire
19 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2004 : 04:37:42 AM
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Okaaaaayy.... so ... (ahem). Which one should Kung Fu Kenobi use?
I think you should try them both if you can. There are a lot of resources and samples on the net for both flavors of vb so I think productivity is not so much of a problem. The only way to know if them new shoes fit is if you try em' on ... or something like that  .
Buuuuuut, vb.net has got real OOP! But you don't need that do you? So there!
~Peace |
Just remember to keep smiling while you're programming or your code won't work. There's no sense in cursing the code...further... |
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VB6, and .net. Total noobness...help?
