| Threshold |
Posted - Sep 02 2005 : 11:18:50 PM
I'm now in college full time and have no time to program (though I love to). After 6 years of VB programming, I didn't finish much. My one request to any of you is this:
Write a tutorial or SOMETHING that teaches how to finish a game.
I'm not so good at it, but it sounds like that totally screwed guy is. Get someone to find the secret to finishing a game and tell us about it. I have some ideas of what it might be, but it's too late for me to find out. This site won't go anywhere until it can show programmers the most important thing: how to actually finish (even if it means not having as cool a game as they first hoped).
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| MabeacPresident |
Posted - Dec 15 2005 : 6:10:40 PM
This topic is getting old, but I had another quick thought on finishing games.
I've done mainly graphics and music for the games a friend and I make, but I do a little programming. We worked on project after project, moving on when we got bored when the busy-work, hard, annoying programming came along. I secretly decided to make a junky, easy, simple game that would barely do anything and uses only objects on a form and timer objects. No directX, no Direct draw, nothing.
I finished it in one week.
It's a space shooter game with 5 different ships, several weapons, stars, basic AI for an enemy ship, and two-player mode. It works, it's finished, and I learned one small thought on how to finish a game: don't be a perfectionist.
My little game wasn't very good altogether, but it was finished and it worked.
How not to be a perfectionist? Cheat. When you're programming, you don't always have to do the "right" thing. If it works...DO IT! I did several things in that game that my friend looked at, laughing at the sillyness of the code. But hey, it worked beautifully and I finished it a lot quicker than I might have otherwise!
There is a huge area of discipline, and going through without turning to the side to try something else, but don't make the game you're working on harder than it has to be. If you've never finished anything, try something a lot simplier.
(in case anyone wants to play the game. download it here: http://mabeac.org/files/SD.exe
I never bothered to do much optimization, so as of now it only works on 1024/768 res. controls are the arrow keys, J, K, and L for player 1. Movement for player 2 is R, D, F, G, and other keys are Z, X, C. it sounds confusing but it make perfect sense once you try it.) |
| Struan |
Posted - Nov 21 2005 : 11:01:45 PM
I always have problems getting the creative side finished or even getting off the ground for that matter. Art, Music, SFX and all the other stuff. Finishing the code is not that much of a problem for me. Although my engine is never quite fast enough... and I am always trying to find a way to do 1000 more particles while still getting 60fps...
I have been trying to finish projects lately, which means I have been doing non-game related projects, because they are so much easier for me to finish. |
| IGTHORN |
Posted - Nov 20 2005 : 08:13:48 AM
Wow, this thread kinda goes down to the roots of the programmer psyche. I also have never finished a project, though I've come close. DXGame and cbx really hit the nail on the head right there. I guess I need to kick my ass and do more programming. |
| masterbooda |
Posted - Nov 11 2005 : 4:58:59 PM
My problem is attention related, if it is something new then.....
what where we talking about?
seriously, the skiy is looking grey today, and my best interest is coding something new, uncharted waters...
candy is great..
DaBooda out... |
| cbx |
Posted - Nov 11 2005 : 06:51:39 AM
I think all of you have it all wrong! It's not that people have focusing issues or completion issues it's that they fear. Yes FEAR. Fear as in tech support after the project is complete. 
On a serious note though, I have to agree that DXGame summed it all up exactly. Look at me. I have at minimum 200+ unfinished projects since I started programming. From QBasic to Euphoria to Turbo Pascal to VC++ 4 to VB 5 and 6 to VB.net and C# So many projects started and never finished only to get distracted by other more interesting things.
But I have to say oddly enough I was reflecting back at my programming life a few days ago and realized I have never really finnished a project. I mean really finished a project that I would call complete and done. But there is also something even more interesting that I realized. I have been doing the exact same thing and writing the exact same type of code for over 15 years!  What is that code you ask. The all mighty search for a better graphics api. Back in the day when I started using QBasic what do I remember doing. Creating my own graphics API and helper methods to make it more easier and efficient at drawing stuff on screen. Again the same thing years later with Turbo Pascal, I was building up a graphics library so drawing graphics on screen was easier. What was I doing with VB 5/6 Yep you guessed it, creating my own graphics library for DirectX (R.I.P. DX8Tools, EasyDX8, EDX8, DXHelpers, and DX Classes) All differnet aproaches to writing a graphics helper library. ROFL haha ha, It's just so pathetic it's funny.
Moving on to VB.net, OMG! It's It's,... yet another graphics library. Aptly named DXTools, but this time for Managed DirectX9!  I can't tell how this makes me feel. Writing the same type of code for ever 15 years. It makes me wonder if it was really worth the effort. Or if I was doing it just to pass the time, and play around with a little bit of technology. I will say it again. I can't tell how this makes me feel?
Something else interesting that I have noticed. And this is signifigant. I actually have almost comleted, completed as in considered done, more projects then at any other time in my programming past. I have almost completed writing a half dozen fair size projects. Is it because I'm older and more experienced. Or maybe it's because technology has made it easier. .NET sure seem like a step forward in the right direction. I don't know. But one thing is for cirtian, when I finish tweeking my new asp.net website and have it up and running, there will be more projects availible on my site then from all the previous years combined! Now that is a personal accomplishment. One that I'm looking forward to. When it gets done. Eventually. In time. ... If I don't get distracted. If only I can avert my eyes away from Windows Vista and DirectX 10 long enough, ... 
And now after all these years of unfinished projects what crazy idea do I have in my head. You guessed it I am longing to try and write a very simple game http://www.vbgamer.com/msgboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=491
Will I finish it I do not know? But one things for cirtian. I have written more code. And have come close to finishing more projects then ever before.
I would also like to extend DXGame's ideas and add that to actually complete a game, I would have to say that finding a friend, someone who is equally interesting in programming as you are, and someone who is real, not just a screen name on some internet fourm, would help tremendously in completing any project the two of you would work on. I think having someone to bounce ideas off of and interact with and write code together would make up for much of the lost interest, when it comes to comleting a project.
Just my 2 cents... |
| Walrus |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 2:05:14 PM
Interesting topic.
It seems to me that there can be a lot of causes for someone never to finish a game (or whatever they might be working on). So the first step is discovering what - could be more things - is causing you problems. This can actually be one hell of a difficult task. Believe me, I've been trying for years now.
If you discover it's mainly got to do with motivation - which is seemingly very common - then I guess you really need to get to know yourself. Only then can you "trick" yourself to stick with a project.
Take me for example; I can have an idea this moment, and I'll feel so excited I'll feel my head is gonna explode or sth. Then, might be just half an hour later, I'll say:"Well, this is still a really good idea and everything, but that excitement... is gone." Currently I'm trying an approach that will hopefully help me deal with that. If it does, that's another question. But we'll see. |
| Threshold |
Posted - Sep 24 2005 : 10:32:55 PM
[My request is being answered before my very eyes...] |
| Vankwysha |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 06:21:56 AM
Almar's right, you need motivation. I've started loads of projects which seemed good at the time and I then lost interest a couple of weeks down the track. My suggestion is to start with small things, projects that you can finish in a few days/weeks so you can't get bored. Then, eventually an idea will come to you, an idea which is just so fantastic and brilliant and perfect that you will force yourself to carry the project to completion. All you need is patience. |
| VBBR |
Posted - Sep 05 2005 : 11:50:18 AM
That remembers me you actually finished YALG... Hmm....
And that remembers me I need to talk with you about it... how well did it sell? |
| Almar |
Posted - Sep 04 2005 : 5:20:24 PM
Motivation is the keyword.
The tiny bugs, the finishing touch.. it's a tedious job. |
| timbo152k |
Posted - Sep 04 2005 : 12:54:22 AM
I think DXGame hit the nail on the head with his reply. It's not something you can write a technical tutorial about, there isn't a tidbit of code that makes your game become complete, there is simply a mentality and dicipline which you much teach yourself. |
| dxgame |
Posted - Sep 03 2005 : 05:57:26 AM
"Write a tutorial or SOMETHING that teaches how to finish a game."
I've been involved with video game design for over 20 years now and you have just described one of the hardest things to "comprehend" for the novice game designer. But actually, it goes beyond just game programming. The same "problem" happens when writing music, writing a story, etc. All of us have the ability to START a written story, a song, a program, etc, but we don't all develop the skills needed to actually finish the story, song, program, etc.
When creating video games, you HAVE to learn from your very first project how to finish it. "Finish" can mean alot of things from bug fixes, to refining ai, updating graphics, etc,etc,etc. But in my opinion finish means the game (regardless how bad or good it is) has AT THE LEAST these sections:
Title screen, Game Loop, Game Over Screen.
It's VITAL when you code your first game, it doesn't matter if it's "Hello World", "Guess the number", etc. You HAVE to discipline yourself to finish the project BEFORE moving on to something else. How many of us have dozens of projects we start, get bored with and move on to something else? This ofcourse becomes habit, trains your brain that when the going gets boring, get out to something new and exciting! :)
So what ends up happening is, we learn alot of new skills, how to render graphics, do collision checking, make things move around, but we don't develop the skills needed to actually complete the game and we end up getting bored or frustrated with our projects.
There are no rules when it comes down to "finishing a game". Alot of coders don't know when to stop, it becomes the duty of someone else (producer, project leader, etc) to say "STOP and let's finish the thing as is and release it! "
So I'm sure others will chime in with more technical answers, but my advice is to go back and start over with much smaller projects. Code a few small gems with simple "Title screen, game screen, game over screen" sections and when those are done, MOVE ON to another challenge.
As you progress from simple to more advanced projects you will train your brain to "think it through and visualize how the game might end".
The worse thing a programmer can do in my opinion when it comes to game coding is stop in the middle of a project and move on to something more exciting, think of the subconscious message you are sending to yourself.
In more advancede projects it's always good to get something visual that represents a flow chart of the program. I still like to scribble on paper the sections the game will contain:
Title screen (Attract mode)
Configuration
Help
Game Loop
Game Over Loop
High Score display/entry
Registration Section
Game Exit Screen (Thanks for trying our game ,etc..)
Then if needed you can break down these main sections even further to have a detailed flowchart of the game.
Depending on the genre of your game, especially if it's an adventure or rpg, it might be a good idea to write a short story about your game. This gets the basic idea of the game "out of your head". Then when developing the game your can reference this story as needed.
Try from the start to define your goals for the game such as how many levels it will have. These "rules from the start" will help you code the game and ultimately will help you "comprehend" how to finish the game. ;)
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